English 165LB: Literature & Biotechnology (W11)

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Discussion page

Open thread. Comments are open…


17 Responses to “Discussion page”

  1. Kara Shoemaker said

    I think Vas is brilliant, I have never read an Art Book before but I am definitely more inclined to now. I really like they way you had to look at the book, not only read. Also the way/order you read the page is all up to the reader, do you look first? Or read the narrative about Square? Or follow one of the smaller printed comments?
    The narrative of the book definitely caught my attention. I mean, who is speaking? Who is this narrator? Obviously there is the story about Square and his family (as well other stories like the one about the a person who is looking an instructional book trying to dissect a caveman kind of being)and we get inside these character’s heads through the narrators use of Free Indirect Discourse but then we get all these extra snippets of thought. I like to think its all one narrator and that narrator is the book itself, this crazy compilation of data who is this kind of all knowing entity who is schizophrenic.
    You can almost open the page at random to find the kind of example I mean, but in this case I’ll use pages 156 and 157. On page 157 we have A Pedestrian Story where the narrator delves into the life of Square and his thoughts and on the other page we have three different voices (of the book’s schizo mind)talking or commenting on this rather unsettling policy of the US during WWII for denying visas to such inferior stock as those Jews from Europe.
    Side note: Eugenics, (being a huge theme in Vas) is very interesting and absolutely and absolutely appalling!!!)As I know one person Blogged, the book is full of these pointed parallels between Nazi Germany and the US. I am not saying that the US is going out and killing ‘inferior’ races but we sure did help other people do it.
    Anyway back to the three voices, in this example they all seem to relate to each other but many times this is not the case. There is one in normal sized font that talking about the Dr. Aschafenburg and then there is the one is smaller print that makes sort of sneaky, sarcastic side comments and then there is the other small print in bold that usually spits out extra facts. I really liked the way that these different voices worked together to create an overall sense of irony. Instead of just laying it all out in paragraph form it separates the different ideas/tones that makes the thing it is criticizing/discussing more pointed and enjoyable to read.
    Another interesting thing it does is use quotes from very respected or authorative sources (doctors/scientists/etc). One of the other bloggers mentioned a quote from the diary of a certain doctor who was playing with the idea of helping the child die in order to be able to examine her fascinatingly diseased body. There are plenty of other quotes that also encourage the controlled breeding of undesirable races/classes from perfectly rational and respected people. I think this is what scares and unsettles us the most. That these people who are supposed to be smart or in control or influential are suggesting things that are so inhumane.

  2. Rebecca Podesta said

    As it sounds like it was for most of us, this was my first experience with an “art book.” It’s interesting how different it makes the story. While some may critique it for the often frustrating pace of the stream-of-consciousness as a product of this style of literature, I found it to be thoroughly effective. Evident from the initial story plot, Square seems to be overwhelmed by the events in his life—more specifically the way he is being engineered from his most natural form. Just as the world around him seems to continually make less and less sense, the distribution of information through the course of the novel provides the same effect.
    There are often times when reading that I would have to read the page over more than once because I was distracted by thoughts of whether I should stop to read the side note, or look at the drawing in the corner or to continue the paragraph and take notice of the additions at the end. In this regard, the style of the art novel is most effective in that it is not only an experience through the plot as most literature seems to do. It takes more, or maybe less to unravel the moral of theme of the novel, because it transforms reading from a merely mental process to a physical one as well. VAS was a truly all encompassing experience for me.
    Upon reaching the novel’s end, I found a greater appreciation for the styling of the exterior of the novel. It is not meant to simply tell a story, but to unify all the senses over one mind numbing truth; the world around us is breaching further from it’s natural state and the further we extend, the harder it is to make any immediate sense of it. A good example of this type of confusion occurring for me comes on page 145 where the plot in which Square and his family are involved is riddled by side notes as well as an image of a lab rat. The image specifically directs your attention to the main point of the text—the notion of the “cyborg.” Square’s obvious confusion about the state of his mother-in-law and the complications of her surgery are implemented by the notes; “her body gave birth to a dove.” This presents an obvious distance from the natural world, plunging beyond the comfort of the normal into a bizarre place. Whether in the context of the novel or not, reading a phrase in which a human gives life to a dove would initiate perplexity. In consequence of it being an art novel, this really engineers the mind to think in direct parallelism with the speaking voice, as well as the author. The style is efficiently beyond any single dimension.

  3. Scott Morley said

    Reading Vas was frustrating for me at first. I had a tough time coming to terms with the multiple streams of information. This became more prevalent towards the middle, and it gave me more trouble. I eventually decided to just let it happen and absorb as much information as possible.

    One of my favorite sections of this novel is on page 145, “How odd, Square thought, to realize that your mother is a cyborg.” When I read this I was at a loss for words. The book had made a pretty big claim, and I was interested to see how this claim would be backed up. I would say that no one I know is by any means a cyborg, despite all of our technological dependence. The term “Cyborg” is also rather loaded. Whenever I hear it I think of a completely integrated human/robot with advanced powers. Vas anticipates this and expresses it through Square’s wandering imagination, “Then Square was reading about a future where the brains of people were infused with nanobots the size of blood cells that made whole libraries of digital information part of their mind’s neurobiology”. Vas’ anticipation of my own thoughts surprised me, and I once again wondered where the book was going to take this cyborg idea.

    Then it presents the picture of the rat. This rat is equipped with a drug interface that allows for ease of transfer of chemicals into the blood of the rat. Then Vas drops the little fact that “mother” is equipped with a conceptually identical device. The reader is then presented with the idea that people are already cyborgs, which is a shocking thought. The page presents the reader with an appropriate caption to accompany the Cybo-Rat, “Now maybe I’ve got your attention”

    I would admit, that my attention was/is certainly piqued. Vas challenges the reader’s understanding of the term “cyborg” by juxtaposing our current technological enhancements with what we imagine an archetypal “cyborg” to be. Before reading this book I would never refer to someone that utilizes a dialysis machine as a “cyborg”, but Vas presents a powerful point. Long ago we ceased being “pure” humans, and our lives are increasingly enhanced by technology.

    Vas draws attention to this through Square’s examination of his mother, “the iv pump purred, its digital readout metering a drip that ran down tubing into ger shoulder, the flesh color of the implant making it difficult to tell where it began and she ended.”

    If we are to adopt Square’s point of view, most people are too far gone to go back to becoming regular ol’ humans again. I admit that it would be difficult for people to pull away from technology -especially medical- simply because if can improve our lives. But, I think the point that Vas is trying to make is how woefully ignorant we all are of the “enhancements” that are commonplace in society. I’ve never heard of this chemical interface before, but if I had heard of it my thoughts would have been along the lines of, “Wow, thats cool”, not, “Wow, you’re less human now”.

    As the professor mentioned, Vas seems to be mainly concerned with raising questions about humanity so that we can better understand where technology has taken us, and perhaps wonder exactly how much further we are willing to let it.

  4. Kara Shoemaker said

    I think this is an interesting essay, its called The Self as the Center of Narrative by Daniel Dennett. Its basically trying to explain what the self, the inner monologue, and uses an example of a man-made-story-writting machine to do so. Here is the story.

    “First of all, I want to imagine something some of you may think incredible: a novel-writing machine. We can suppose it is a product of artificial intelligence research, a computer that has been designed or programmed to write novels. But it has not been designed to write any particular novel. We can suppose (if it helps) that it has been given a great stock of whatever information it might need, ans some partially random and hence unpredictable ways of starting the seed of a story going, and building upon it. Now imagine that the designers are sitting back, wondering what kind of novel their creation is going to write. They turn the thing on and after a while the high speed printer begins to go clickety-clack and out comes the first sentence. “Call me Gilbert,” it says. What follows is the apparent autobiography of some fictional Gilbert. Now Gilbert is a fictional, created self but its creator is no self. Of course there were human designers who designed the machine, but they didn’t design Gilbert. Gilbert is a product of a design or invention process in which there aren’t any selves at all. That is, I am stipulating that this is not a conscious machine, not a “thinker.” It is a dumb machine, but it does have the power to write a passable novel. (IF you think this is striclty impossible I can only challenge you to show why you think this must be so, and invite you read on; in the end you may not have an interest in defending such a precarious impossibilility-claim.)

    So we are to imagine that a passable story is emitted from the machine. Notice that we can perform the same sort of literary exegesis with regard to this novel as we can with any other. In fact if you were to pick up a novel at random out of a library, you could not tell with certainty that it wasn’t written by something like this machine. (And if you’re a New Critic you shouldn’t care.) You’ve got a text and you can interpret it, and so you can learn the story, the life and adventures of Gilbert. Your expectations and predictions, as you read, and your interpretive reconstruction of what you have already read, will congeal around the central node of the fictional character, Gilbert.

    But now I want to twiddle the knobs on this thought experiment. So far we’ve imagined the novel, The Life and Times of Gilbert, clanking out of a computer that is just a box, sitting in the corner of some lab. But now I want to change the story a little bit and suppose that the computer has arms and legs–or better: wheels. (I don’t want to make it too anthropomorphic.) It has a television eye, and it moves around in the world. It also begins its tale with “Call me Gilbert,” and tells a novel, but now we notice that if we do the trick that the New Critics say you should never do, and look outside the text, we discover that there’s a truth-preserving interpretation of that text in the real world. The adventures of Gilbert, the fictional character, now bear a striking and presumably non-coincidental relationship to the adventures of this robot rolling around in the world. If you hit the robot with a baseball bat, very shortly thereafter the story of Gilbert includes his being hit with a baseball bat by somebody who looks like you. Every now and then the robot gets locked in the closed and then says “Help me!” Help whom? Well, help Gilbert, presumably. But who is Gilbert? Is Gilbert the robot, or merely the fictional self created by the robot? If we go and help the robot out of the closet, it sends us a note: “Thank you. Love, Gilbert.” At this point we will be unable to ignore the fact that the fictional career of the fictional Gilbert bears an intersting resemblance to the “career” of this mere robot moving through the world. We can still maintain that the robot’s brain, the robot’s computer, really knows nothing about the world; it’s not a self. It’s just a clanky computer. It doesn’t know what it’s doing. It doesn’t even know that it’s creating a fictional character. (The same is just as true of your brain; it doesn’t know what it’s doing either.) Nevertheless, the patterns in the behavior that is being controlled by the computer are interpretable, by us, as accreting biography–telling the narrative of a self. But we are not the only interpreters. The robot novelist is also, of course, an interpreter: a self-interpreter, providing its own account of its activities in the world.”

    So Dennet goes on to explain how this is basically how the brain works. The brain itself has no idea what is going on, it doesn’t have conciousness but the narrative it produces does.
    This reminds me a lot of Neuromancer and the idea of AI. Humans who created an unconcious machine that is programed to “think” and “interprete” a certain way, just like our own human brains. This article to me just further blurs the lines between human and non human.

  5. Alejandro Miranda said

    I feel that this article brings to light the real world notion of monetizing humanity (blood plasma, etc.) brought up in VAS. In a way it also directly reflects what is happening in Harvest.

    If Steve Job’s is able to use his $$ to buy a human liver, who’s to say that with enough capital and resources a person can’t attain anything/anyone they want?


  6. Anne Schofield said


    I have to admit, I’m not entirely sure how this ties in with the works we’ve discussed in class–at least not specifically–but it definitely qualifies as Biotech and I stumbled upon it working on a personal project and thought I would share. In summary, the article is about the development of fuel cells that run off of the body’s natural fluids–specifically the glucose and oxygen found in blood–and generate enough power to run something like, say, a pacemaker. Such a fuel cell has been created, and was able to run off of the blood stream of a rat. The ramifications of this invention are enormous. This particular development is one I have been watching for the last two years or so, and I have been toying with the possibilities opened up by this technology in a writing project of my own (still very much a work in progress…) Anyway, the big question is, if we could find a way to augment, repair, or even replace organs with mechanical pieces that run off of our own blood, could we wean ourselves off of our dependence on real tissue organ transplants? And if blood can be seen as a fuel source, what does that say about the line between what is human and what is mechanical? Just some food for thought…

    • Alexandra Zageris said

      I found this article very interesting, particularly when it discusses the possibilities for treating diabetes. Since diabetes is so common, this technology would have a large positive impact in the medical world. On the other hand, would something like this biofuel cell work for people with hypoglycemia. The article mentions this problem as a potential risk but would the cell work at all if the patient already has low blood sugar. In regards to the questions asked, I don’t so much see this advancement as a progression from human to machine completely. This article brought to mind some of the discussion surrounding Neuromancer specifically the questions surrounding the difference between medical necessity and body augmentation. If the body can become completely self reliant with the aid of the biofuel cell I see this more as augmentation rather than a full transformation into machine. What I am curious of is whether or not scientists can create a biofuel cell that that can generate power from something else that the body has an excess of, such as fat.

  7. A common theme brought up in the second half of this class outside of the cloning was the selling of body parts. Interestingly, it has been brought to my attention that there is a large market for human organs. The big problem is putting a price on the organs. Many people expressed their feelings on the craigslist post introduced in class. I found an article about plasma donations, which discussed how a certain amount of money is put away to supply donators with money in exchange for their plasma. It demonstrates the limited supply of blood and plasma in the universe and how it is not being provided. From my understanding of the article there is a fixed price, and you can not expect to get rich off of it; however, it is enough to motivate a human being who can earn 200 dollars a month—conditions being they are in good health. My interest is what is the dilemma in selling organs? If we allow blood and plasma, which come out of the body to be sold and exchanged for small compensation, why not do the same for organs? Furthermore we even allow large compensation in the thousands for healthy eggs and sperm donations. The is heart is a vital organ which pumps the blood through the body. We allow the selling of the blood but not the main organ, which uses the blood. They seem to go hand in hand like selling a video game but you cant sell the system to play it on. As well cited in the article there is not enough blood to meet everyone needs. so do we wait to their are not enough organs to meet everyone needs then will we supply compensation for organs. I would much more willing give up and extra liver for cash instead of giving it up for free.

    website http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/SellingBodyPartsForCash.aspx

    • Jonathan Lurie said

      The issue I see with creating a money market for human organs, or even renewable bodily resources such as blood or plasma (which you mentioned) is not whether it would create a more dynamic market for said organs. If you begin offering money for human organs and bodily fluids then it’s simple economics that as price rises in a suppply relationship the quantity supplied will of course increase. However, while on the surface an increase in available organs is a positive boon, the issue I primarily see is one of class distinction. If we put a price on human organs, than we will be increasing class gaps on both sides of the arrangement. First, the system will be primarily supplied by those poor enough to be desperate enough to sell vital organs to support themselves and their family–even at the cost of health perhaps. On the flip side of this system, we also can see that by enabling wealth to allow you to “cut in line” so to speak will drastically reduce the priority of those who don’t have the wealth to take advantage of this loophole. If we allow a system such as this we essentially are declaring that the actual worth of a man can be based on class standing–as those without means are apparently less deserving of organs that will allow them to survive.

  8. Kellyn Trummer said


    This article looks into the future of regenerative medicine in which organs, such as the kidney, will be created using the patient’s cells and a 3D printer. The organ will be assembled layer by layer, using cultured cells of the patient and biodegradable binding gel. The patient’s defunct organ will be analyzed to get the proper sizing for the new organ, which could be printed in about 7 hours. This technology can also be applied to skin grafts for burn victims, with the burned area sprayed with the needed layers of skin cells.

    The idea of “printing” organs sounds absurd to me, but if it really is possible in the future, I think it sounds like a viable option for organ transplants. It utilizes the patient’s own cells, so that there is no need for the organ ownership debate brought up by Mitchell in The Laws of Mo(o)re. The money made from this technology would not be based on a person’s cells or organs; instead it would be based on the technology itself. Each organ would be tailored to meet the patient’s own body needs, lessening the chance of the body rejecting the organ.

    While the printed organs are intended to be unique to the individuals requiring them, a foreseeable quandary comes with the potential for mass-production of a printed organ. Then the organ ownership rights brought up by Mitchell again come into play. Will these cloned organs be owned by the person they originated from, or by the company (factory?) producing them in bulk? We’ll have to wait and see if this technology actually comes to fruition.

  9. Jonathan Lurie said

    While rereading Oryx and Crake for the final essay through the lens of experimention I noticed a theme that i find very interesting–and that is the theme of human self destruction through the desire for exedient or even immediate gratification. The idea of BlyssPlus, a miracle pill that provides instant hapiness, causing the doom of the human race can be seen in parallell with the corners we cut to achieve hapiness in modern life. For example, fast food is an extremely successful business even though the food it provides is far from healthy. Our desire for cheap good tasting food overwhelms our good sense and already we see an epidemic of morbid obesity in the U.S. This can also be seen in out choice to drive gas guzzling cars, it is common knowledge that the emissions of these cars destroy the environment yet we continue to choose to drive them; citing their safety or style. It is interesting to think of how we are in a sense creating our own versions of “BlyssPlus” through the common practice of prioritizing pleasure over health and survival requirements.

  10. Mike McFarlin said

    The singularity

    Though this post is pretty late to our discussion about Neuromancer, I feel this video is a very interesting look at the future of technology and it brings us to many of the same questions we have dealt with this whole quarter including how does one define the human. This video is a BBC special produced a few years back about a point in the future when the processing power of computers reaches the processing power of the human brain; this has been dubbed the singularity. The idea is that our knowledge of how the brain functions and how to program artificial intelligences will be at such a point that we can construct actual artificial intelligence that mimics the capabilities of the human brain and may surpass it. There are interviews with many pioneers in fields such as neurology, AI development, and quantum computing. It is very interesting to hear them talk about possible futures for humanity as we come to a point where we can download our minds to computers or integrate with machines in the future. Some see this point as the next evolution of humanity others see it has our downfall; either way, we will reach this point in our lifetimes. I encourage you all to watch this as it is only 50 minutes and the interviews and look at our technological capabilities are very interesting. It should be a nice end to finals as well.


    PS: The production is a little weird, with little kids running through the woods every once in a while, but the content is very interesting.

  11. Lauren Loreto said


    This article concerns the process of developing a genetically engineered chicken that is naturally resistant to bird flu. This is done by engineering chickens with a small bit of RNA from the flu gene in order to resist the dangerous bird flu; however it only worked when tested in chicken culture cells. When it was used a real chicken, the chickens still caught the bird flu and but did not transmit to the other birds they were housed with. The scientists concluded that this could lead to either a virus that is more lethal, or a virus with a slower incubation period that transmits more readily. So either the chickens die faster, or they get more birds sick. Im not really sure what the advantages of this vaccine are; it seems like you are forced to choose the lesser of two evils. It is probably easier to just leave the chickens alone and vaccinate them as needed; this vaccine obviously has many kinks in it, and the bird flu virus is a complex and ever-changing one. Plus, these chickens would be genetically modified, and even the scientists of this study admitted that people would be reluctant to eat genetically modified chicken. If the people who created this chicken can readily admit that, it can be said that they are wary of genetically modified food as well. If you ask me, I like my chickens the way they are. Once the basic structure of the chicken has been changed, it is no longer a chicken. And if its not a chicken, then what is it?

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